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Post by Hilds on Mar 24, 2004 11:07:10 GMT -5
It's the Mitcham and District league (Sutton area). I am recruiting for next season, and I asked you about it a couple of months ago, you said you might play but it depended if your girlfriend let you play or not...
If you are up for it welcome to O'Neills!
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Post by Hilds on Mar 31, 2004 6:34:37 GMT -5
Not sure if I want to resurect this topic, there was plenty of bashing last time and I don't think many people saw the big picture. But...
I received a call this morning from the manager of another team (Woodies). I had a conversation with him about a month ago about his club folding and my plan to run two teams next season. He has told me his intention is to fold his club and he has spoken to his players and currently there are around eight players, including a keeper, who are interested in joining our club next season. If all these players join and are reliable every week all I need is another 4-5 players to make both clubs strong. If I get the 4-5 players I am after then we will have two very strong teams next season.
If anyone is interested I am intending to go and watch Woodies game this Sunday when they play Dulwich Bohemians at Prince Georges (10.30ko). I am going to meet the players, tell them about our club, and give out our membership forms. Anyone that wants to come with me are welcome, I'll be leaving Sutton at around 10am.
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Post by MariaMeager on Mar 31, 2004 6:46:56 GMT -5
I still think it is a bad idea, but if that is what you are going to do then go ahead. I will not be around until about 11-12 on Sunday as I have to take my Nan shopping (the joys of being me) so I will call you when I am home and see if there is any point me coming down.
If you are going to do this Darryl you need to call a "meeting" (drinking binge may go down better) and get everyones input on what team they want to play for and where, so people know exactly where they stand, because as you found out the people you thought would be happy to play the B team are not.
If you do not do this and just place people where you think they want to go you WILL upset people. I know you put a lot of time and effort into the team so for arguments sake make sure you do this!
Good luck
Maria
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Post by hoggle on Apr 2, 2004 8:04:47 GMT -5
I think I will lend some support to the idea of two teams! ;D The players who are currently unhappy with the final league position may leave - if this is the case it is highly unlikely, in fact impossible, for next seasons team to be the same as this season. Every year players come and go and in the 7 years that I have watched (and had to listen to!) Darryl, no season has been exactly the same for players. A great deal has been done for your club, the most obvious point being sponsorship, which has led to new kits, training material etc. Have a little faith that more good can come! What harm can it do to try a new system? Change is not a bad thing. Whatever the outcome there are always people that are pissed off or angry (and that includes when games are won!). So, if it works - GREAT and if it doesnt........well then you can all take great pleasure in blaming Darryl for his mistake! Now doesnt that sound like fun!  Claire |
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Post by Hilds on Apr 4, 2004 8:01:34 GMT -5
This thread is getting too congested with nothing arguments. So now I want you to tell me CLEARLY AND CONCISELY what your feeling are. Don't just post to say "Its not a good idea" and that is their whole argument, I may will delete that post as it adds nothing to the pro/con arguement. If the arguemnet is "People will leave" I may delete that post as, unless you are that person, you do not know if that is true. If you post "I will leave because..." and then list reasons why we can debate that fact.
I'm going to list some of my opinions about having two teams next season (some of which are facts)...
1. (FACT) If we have two teams one will be in the Mitcham 2nd division and one will be in the Mitcham 3rd division. If we run one team they will play in the Mitcham 3rd division. So the players in the 3rd division team are not being relegated, they are staying the same as they would anyway.
2. It's a certainty that I will sign new players in the Summer. So far no one has left from the season we have just finished (and I don't want anyone to leave) that means a larger squad than last season, which means more people missing out each week. If you were one of the few unused subs last season how did that feel? You got up, came to football, got cold, ran the line and didn't get to play. That will happen more next season with one club. Two clubs gives everyone more chances to play, and afterall that is what we are all here for... (Currently confirmed new signings for next season are Carl (striker, centre midfielder, winger) and Craig (striker).
3. (FACT) The club saves money with the League and with Surrey county when it comes to registration. This money can be re-invested in other areas of the club.
4. (FACT) I will get a new manager to run one of the clubs. My intention is for the new manager to just manage and not to be a player/manager. I am looking for someone with a fair amount of experience for this role.
5. (FACT) Jerry (manager at O'Neills pub) is getting pissed at us due to the small numbers going into his pub each Sunday. There is a good chance we will lose part of our sponsorship deal with the pub if this continues next season (ie the man of the match tab, or the food). A second club means more numbers in the pub which keeps our sponsors happier.
6. Player pride. A few people have brought up the argument that they don't want to play for a "B" team. Every player that played last season has a right to think they should be in the "A" side. To argue the point of an "A" and "B" side is simple... Which ever team you are in, don't think of it as an "A" or "B" side. Think of it as your team. I currently play for Chipstead 3rd team, I don't feel embaressed because it is the 3rd team. It is just the side I play for, it is also the side that won a cup final a few weeks ago so there is plenty to be proud of. I know my abilities (or lack of...) and I would rather be in the starting line up in a Cup Final for the 3rd team than be sitting on the bench for the 2nd's or 1st's. I see O'Neills "A" and "B" teams in a similar light, I would rather be a potential starter for the O'Neills "B" side than a definate substitute in the "A" side.
7. Different types of players. We have two very different types of player. The ones that just want to play and the ones that need to win. I fall into the first catigory, I love it when we win but, ultimately, I just wanna play. With two clubs the "A" team will have the players that need to win, the "B" team will have the players that want to win. There is a big difference. How can I have a go at a poor team performance when I know half the team don't mind if they win or not (2-6 Vs Dulwich). It's not fair on anyone. So both teams will be set up with the best possible chance to win games, but the "A" side will get far more grief if they fail.
8. (FACT) I will run the "B" team. This team will not be run as a feeder club for the "A" team and the "A"s will not have first pick of all the players. Ultimately I will pick the two squads and these squads will stay largely the same for the entire season. If the "A"s have 10 players in their starting line up for a game and the "B"s have 11 then the "B"s will start their game with 11 players. The squads will have to be self sufficent and look after their own squad of players.
9. (FACT) If we have four strikers, then there will be two in each squad. For example, we have a few good strikers at the club (with my new signings). Next season we will have Pat, Luke, Craig, Carl and me. (Ok 4 good strikers...). All four are good enough to play in the MItcham 2nd division. Any combination of the four would be a good combination and any one of them would do a good job coming off the bench to change a game. BUT, there will definately be two in the "A"s and two in the "B"s. For example, Pat and Luke might play in the "A"s and Craig and Carl will play for the "B"s. The "A" team will not get all the best players!! The same goes for the defence and midfield too.
We played and lost to Southbank B during the season, we played and lost to Dulwich Bohemian B during the season. Merton FC (who went up in first place last season) have about 7 sides spread through out 3 different leagues (Mitcham, Morden and Leatherhead), we played and lost to their 7th team in the cup this season. The reason these teams do well is:
i) More players for training, which means training can happen every week as there are enough players to make it happen finantially and make it worthwhile for the players.
ii) If they are short on players they have another team of players to draw from.
We have had a good season, and I don't want to take on more work for the sake of it, but I am willing to if it means everyone continues to play a much football as they currently are. Many players will play more.
Ok, keep it clear and consise. Make sure you have a point to post before posting (or I may delete it) and keep it realistic. If I haven't done that with this post you are welcome to bash and disect it as I will, no doubt, disect yours. This isn't about arguements and everyone doing what I want, if I was set on running two clubs I wouldn't ask for your opinions. I want to know what the feeling is out there before I go ahead with this.
What I want is for players to look at this realistically. Think with your head and try to leave pride out of this, we had a good season and whether we have one club or two next season it will be better for everyone.
Post away...
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Post by oldbill on Apr 6, 2004 16:22:52 GMT -5
right here goes, I think its time to add a different opinion to this topic from an older more mature point of view. First i think its not a bad idea to try two teams as if we get woodies, carls team and a few other players we will have enough. I do think however the a and b side should not really be discussed here but at a team meeting, or piss up. We all enjoy playing, granted i have enough cups to keep me happy but if i didn't think i was still giving something to a team i'd hang my boots up go on a refs course and send you all off! Having played with carls team there are a few players who stand out but most are the same level as us. They are a group of mates who also want to play together same as us. Why don't we register the two teams get together at training and piss ups and start the season with people in the teams they signed up for originally with some people who are happy to fill in or from any other joiners making up the numbers. Don't tell people they are being dropped to a b team but at first discuss it ask people if they are willing to help out the other team and see how it goes. I think in this season u may find the b side will be the more successful as they are in the lower division and we all know we can win that one! Maria stop giving daryl a hard time about this he puts a hell of a lot of effort in and like all of us has a strop at times we're men thats what we do' But i think the idea , if he does the work, has merit at least there won't be 5 of us on a weekday training session if there are 30 players and two teams going. I'm all for trying the idea as the bishop said to the actress - suck it and see.  ;D |
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Post by Hilds on Apr 6, 2004 17:11:02 GMT -5
Ahh, Billy boy. Good to have you on board. Thanks for the personal support too (Yes I do work hard for this club...)
Anyhoo, on to the point of this post...
I think all your points have merit, the training aspect was one of the most disappointing things for me last season. We started training at the start of the season and numbers soon dwindled to single figures. I did a lot of research and made numerous calls for a training pitch and everything was around £50. I spoke to a fair few players and hardly any players were available for the same night. The best night we had was Thursday evening, and it would have cost around £5 per player if at least ten players turned up for every session (which is more than we currently pay if we play a full game...) Having done training a couple of seasons ago (when we were S.C.C) and seeing how quickly numbers dropped I wasn't prepared to sign up for a training pitch and have to pay for it all myself (me bailing out the club finantially happens more often than you would think...) Therefore two clubs would make training far easier for me to organise. This also bears true for the after match commitments we have to O'Neills pub. If we have two squads of players then Jerry will be happier and we are far more likely to have our sponsorship deal re-newed at the end of next season!
The only thing I am overly concerned about is the debate about players not wanting to play for a "B" team or getting stressed if they are put into the "B" side after being in the "A" team. I will be managing the "B" side, so I will not be letting the "A" manager swipe all my best and most reliable talent. At the end of the day I have a side to run and I want that team to win games (My aim for the new season is to win the 3rd division). With the signings I have made (Carl is coming home and Craig, who played for us a few seasons ago, is joining him) we will be contenders. We shouldn't be getting bogged down with the name of the team we are playing in, the bottom line is we all play for the team we are in. We all do the best we can in the team we are in. It will make no difference to me if I play for a "A" side or a "B" side (I currently play for a "C" side on Saturdays) At the end of the day what's in a name? If we have one side we will be in the same division as the "B" side will be playing in, so what is the difference?
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Post by Hilds on Apr 6, 2004 18:59:12 GMT -5
Forgot to address one of Bill's points...
Bill said:
"I do think however the a and b side should not really be discussed here but at a team meeting, or piss up."
The reason I've put it here for discussion is so everyone has a chance to see all the relevent arguments for and against that have been posted. It also means people can think about what they are posting before doing so and emotion should have less of a bearing on the topic. If this was discussed at a meeting or a piss up the points would not be made properly, they definatly would not be listened to and half the room would not want to be there. Before last season started we had a team meeting to decide if we should continue as a team or fold. Those that were there should remember I organised myself and attempted to adopt a professional approach to the meeting (I even typed an adgenda for everyone, and wrote notes for myself to read from). The meeting was a disaster. Less than half the squad turned up, everyone wanted their say and decided the best way to put there point accross was to shout the loudest. A few members of the team were obviously unhappy about one or two things (players player of the year being the main one) and decided that was the only subject they wanted to discuss, instead of the more pressing issue of "should the club fold" At least on these boards everyone can say what they want without being shouted down (or deleted).
Also, everyone has access to the internet (except Colin and Taff to my knowledge) and everyone has the site address. If any member of the team has a view on this issue they should either post it here or send me an e-mail (my address is logged on this site and on the usual O'Neills site). Personally, I would rather post my thoughts here as I am fine if people want to disect them. Whereas in a meeting tempers tend to flair, and the points we want to address are usually skirted around.
Having said that, this will be brought up at a team meeting in a few weeks. Hopefully we, as a team, will be able to have an adult, constructive discussion this year!!
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Post by MariaMeager on Apr 7, 2004 3:14:09 GMT -5
The only reason I am giving Darryl a hard time as I have supported Darryls football "obsession" since I was about 17, I am now 25 and through those years from Tweeddale to O'Neills I have watched Darryl as Bill said "throw a strop" and get in debt which in my mind is not fair, and that is from one team. I know that O'Neills are very true to Darryl and would not put him in s**t like some of his previous teams have, and I know Darryl puts his life and soul into his football, that's why I think it will be too much.
Darryl I have always and will always support what you do and you know that, I am just worried it will be too much and you will get yourself in trouble over it. O'Neills are a good bunch of blokes and are your mates so they are less likely to let you down. Just make sure you do have enough players and they are not going to let you down before you commit to this.
I sick of this now and I am not going to say another word on this matter.
Maria
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Post by Hilds on Apr 10, 2004 19:00:39 GMT -5
This is our current squad for next season, all the players listed have said to me that they are staying or signing (some of them are players I have been told will sign). I haven't included the Woodies team as I haven't met them yet (the game I was going to scout was called off), but I have been assured there will be eight of their players signing for me. I also haven't included Steve Laing and Carl's team as I haven't had any confirmation yet from them (except from a couple of their players). So this is how the current squad looks...
GK Claws (confirmed for next season)
RB Marshall (confirmed for next season)
RB Taff (should be confirming for next season soon)
LB Bill (confirmed for next season)
LB Wallis (confirmed for next season)
CD Gimp (confirmed for next season)
CD Ian (confirmed for next season)
CD Nash (friend of Claws')
CD Peter (from Chipstead)(has booked shirt number!)
RM Dan (confirmed for next season)
RM Steve Laing (confirmed for next season)
LM John (Paul's mate, confirmed for next season)
LM Simon (says he will be back for next season...)
CM Aubs (confirmed for next season)
CM Rick (confirmed for next season)
CM Ash (confirmed for next season)
CM Colin (confirmed for next season)
CM Jim (confirmed for next season)
CM Carl (confirmed for next season)
CM Richard Oxer (confirmed for next season)
CM Bov (played a few seasons ago, wants to return)
ST Darryl (confirmed for next season)
ST Luke (confirmed for next season)
ST Pat (confirmed for next season)
ST Craig (top scorer in his only season at the club)
ST Mark (Ian's mate)
Five players in that list are not 100% reliable, but the rest should be fine to sign for the club. Add to that the 8 signings from Woodies (including a keeper) and we have the basis of two very good clubs (the players are listed in no paticular order, so don't think I'm giving away any thoughts I have who should be in what squad...)
The above list is why I think we should have two squads next season. Personally I don't want to just be a squad player who only plays for half a game every 4-6 weeks (as I would do if we only had one squad). I would rather play football most weekends and by having two squads we should be able to achieve this for everyone.
19 confirmed players for next season, a couple more that should be confirming in the next couple of days and several more that should be joining from Woodies (approx 8 players) and maybe a few more from Steve Laing's old team as well. Great things are in store for us next season...
Thoughts...
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Post by Hilds on Apr 26, 2004 17:28:37 GMT -5
Last Sunday (25/04/04) I saw Woodies play their final league fixture. They faced Chelski (our division winners) and gave a reasonable account of themselves. They were well beaten but managed to put 5 goals past a strong Chelski side, which is a feat not many other teams have achieved! Ok, they shipped 10 goals but so did many other teams (we conceded 6 to them early season...) Whilst I watch them they remined me of our team two seasons ago. I think they are currently two players away from being a decent side, if they had, for example, Aubs and Ian in their side I think they would have have been challenging us for 4th spot in the league! (I'm not planning to put them into the new side)
I think, as long as most of the Woodies side sign for us, if we put the Woodies side with Steve Laing's players and a couple of O'Neills players there will be a very good club formed. This way I would be able to keep the majority of the O'Neills players from last season together and not split the club in half (a few players have mentioned that they fear a complete split).
As yet I haven't heard an argument that has convinced me not to run two teams. My over riding thought has been to let the majority play football, if I run one team this will push out a lot of players, and more importantly, friends. Two teams is the only way to go so it will happen. The only remaining area I have to confirm is the number of Woodies players that want to sign for me. If I get around 7 or 8 reliable boys then we have plenty of players to launch a second team. If Woodies pull out of the deal then we stay as one club.
Currently the fixtures plan is...
Chipstead on Saturday 1st May. This is just for existing players from last season and the 4 new boys that played against Merton Eagles.
Chipstead home leg on Sunday 9th May. All players welcome. (This game is not yet confirmed)
Training on May 16th. Everyone welcome. Following this session I will have had time to a) give out and collect in all the membership forms and the fees for the new season, b) get to know everyone, c) recruit a manager, d) secured sponsorship for the new side, e) know which positions still need filling (if any), f) get new kits ordered.
So there is still a lot of work to be done, a lot of t's to cross and i's to dot as it were! I have ideas on who will be in which squad, and I don't think there will be any major surprises. I've tried to keep friends and family together where possible. I will possibly draft on here my thoughts on who will be in which team, but this will be subject to change as it depends on the boys from Woodies and where they fit in. From what I saw of them on Sunday there were a few that would have walked into our side last season. I spoke to a few of them in their changing room and they seems very interested in joining, but wanted to stay together if possible (which I understand). So the long and the short of it is this... Most will be in one of our teams, but a few may be in the other team.
I think I've waffled on a bit now. Just wanted to update you on the good news.
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Post by MariaMeager on Apr 27, 2004 3:03:35 GMT -5
I will be down for the 16th as i am away with work in Germany until the 12th (joy), I take it training is a Rosehill as normal? If not let me know. See you in a few weeks
Me!
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Post by LukeNo10 on Apr 27, 2004 13:09:46 GMT -5
I think the idea of two teams is stupid as we have built a good side with the players we have! just need a few more to make us solid. But no offence to maria but how can she comment on our side when she knows nothing about most of the players. yeah she has good points but we should leave it to the players to voice there opinions and not the fans. I have built confidence with more or less every player i play alongside in the side but i know from previous experience of having two teams that it dont work. every one ends up leaving and playing for a side where they know all the players they play with. we are trying to get the rubbish out of our side not bring them in. I.e EDIT is a quality defender and EDIT is a wicked player overall so we need to keep them, but as for EDIT, he is no better than what we already have. so why bring him down in the first place. stick with one side and just add a few players to it. lets face it most of the useless one's dont turn up no more anyway coz they know they wont get played!!!
Sorry mate, had to edit your post a bit. Can't have you naming names now can I. Hilds
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Post by MariaMeager on Apr 27, 2004 13:23:21 GMT -5
I do not know many of the players? Hum...... considering i have grown up with most of them I think you are a tad wrong. If you want full details of who I know and for how long I have known them then you either ask the players or one of the Hilder 3! No affence but I have been following this team since I was around 18 (sad I know) I am now 25! I know a lot more about certain players than you probably do, not all granted.
Even though I haven't been down this season i know all of the going on's and I get updated regularly so as a person and as a friend to Darryl and most of the players I can say what I like!
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Post by Hilds on Apr 27, 2004 15:38:56 GMT -5
Calm down. This should be kept fun!!
Luke, Maria has been around for years and knows a lot of the players, and as a member here she is entitled to her opinion. You can agree with her, disagree with her or ignore her. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Maria, a lot of players have changed this season. We gain a lot of quality players in Luke, Aubs, Ian, Rick, Ash, Pat and others. You may remember Pat from Tweeddale days but other than than the others are all new. From Lukes point of view, he doesn't know you and has seen you bash on here and probably wonders why when you haven't seen how good we have been this season.
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;D